Discussion – Complete Game Rebalance Part 2

Chapter II: Medium Tanks

Germany:

Tier 4-5 balanced somewhat. Only slight improvements not worth mentioning. Tier 6, VK 30.01 P either remove or cheapen the engine upgrade, literally unplayable stock. Again, remove some guns and guarantee -10 depression on all guns. VK 30.02 M remove one engine upgrade and adjust mobility accordingly to keep the tank brisk. Stock gun different from the PZ IV, increased pen to 120mm and lower DPM than upgrade gun, which gets 150 alpha to buff the DPM and 155mm pen to help a bit. Recommend strengthening the mantlet, to improve the turret armor. Same treatment for VK 30.01 D. Tier 7 increased alpha on the L/100 for the panther. Incredible DPM with stock gun. Give the L/100 to the VK 30.02 D as well, and remove some guns from it and one of the engine upgrades, tweaking mobility accordingly to keep it brisk, quicker than the normal Panther. Tier 8 improved armor, and DPM adjusted to offset the flat and thin turret. Quick aim time and good accuracy, as well as -9 depression. Indien is better now, but I would recommend a mobility improvement, a turret traverse improvement and aim time and accuracy improvements. Tier 9 better armor for the E 50, again -9 depression and a DPM offset to balance the turret armor. Leopard is balanced well, I would recommend slightly more mobility. Tier 10 better armor for the E 50 M and again, -9 depression and offset DPM.

Russia:

Tier 4-5 well balanced. Tier 6 cut one of the engine upgrades of the T-34-85 and adjust mobility accordingly. A-43 more mobility and depression (-8 or -9). Tier 7 slightly increase pen for the T-43, remove some guns and cheapen the engine upgrade, no reason for it to be that expensive. Stock gun is the 85mm from the T-34-85, upgrade gun is a better 85mm ( 170mm pen, same alpha, slightly more accurate OR better aim time), also seen on the T-44, KV-13 and the A-44. A-44 better side armor, central cupola, rather than to one side, and shorter. Improved aim time OR accuracy, -5 depression over the front of the tank and -7 over the sides. KV-13 remove some guns, better turret and depression at -7 or -8 with top gun. Choice between the 107mm or the 85mm. Tier 8 T-44 remove some guns, the 122mm and the 85mm MUST GO, and the 100mm from the KV-85 becomes stock gun. With these guns, the tank gets -8 depression, the upgrade 100mm gun becomes the 100mm M-63 from the Obj. 416 and gets the normal -7 depression. Obj. 416 greater mobility, improved gun depression over the side, more accurate and better aim time. Great tank and turret traverse improvements. Tier 9 T-54 remove some guns, among them the 100mm D-10T2S, to get the tank more in line with the T55A and to discourage Premium ammo spam. Obj 430 II -5 depression over the front and -7 over the sides, better gun handling and accuracy, and also improved mobility, at the cost of weaker side armor. Tier 10 T-62A gets the stongest Medium Turret in the game, worse mobility and -5.5 depression. The Obj. 140 gets an even weaker turret, but -7 degrees of depression. Obj. 430U lower frontal armor and lower rate of fire, to balance the higher alpha, lowering the DPM as a result. K-91 the lower plate extends to where there is no upper plate anymore, the "roof" of the hull becomes 40mm thick and the lower plate 200mm. IS-3 style turret weakpoint between the cupolas, 34mm thick so that 100mm guns cant overmatch.

USA:

Tier 4 M3 Lee get revolutionary multi-gun system, as tested in the Halloween event a couple of years back, being able to use both the 37mm and the 75mm. The tank gets 1 upgrade for the 75mm and 1 upgrade for the 37mm, none more. The 37mm upgrade will be taken from the light tank line. Aiming switchable from the 75mm perspective to the 37mm via right-click in sniper mode. Tier 5 balanced. Tier 6 increased mobilty on the E8, and again, removal of one of the engine upgrades and cheapening the remaining one. The upgraded 76mm gets more alpha by 10hp and more pen by 20mm. Adjust as you wish for Premium ammo. Also, strengthen the TURRET ARMOR, better mantlet and thicker armor behind it. No turret upgrade on the E2, only ther strongest turret can be used. Tier 7 slightly increased mobility and turret armor, as well as better DPM, accuracy and aim time. Tier 8 Pershing slight buff to the turret armor to help it bounce some shots, improve the stock engine and remove some guns, stock gun becomes the 90mm from the T20. T69 improved aim time, penetration, DPM and accuracy, slightly better mobility and -10 depression. Tier 9 Patton remove some guns, share the 105mm top gun with the T32 and remove the stock engine. T54E1 improved pen, aim time, accuracy and mobility, remove an engine and set -9 depression.

France:

Tier 4 remove some guns and increase either armor or mobility. Tier 5 increase mobility and buff the armor on the upgraded turret, as it is very easily penned, very flat and very visible and difficult to hide

Tiers 9-10 should get view range nerfs in accordance to what I have proposed before. Apart from that, maybe a slight DPM increase for the tier 9s. Removal of the stock guns of the B-C 25t and AMX 30.

Britain:

Tier 4 same treatment for the Grant as for the M3 Lee, no other complaints. Tier 5 improved mobility and speed for the Crusader, as well as -10 depression all around the tank. Quick reverse speed and turret traverse, as well as higher shell velocity on the 6-pdr and quicker aim time. Remove some guns and flatten the raised portion on the front right side of the hull, to help with gun depression. Sherman III needs more gun depression to get on par with the American one, as well as some mobility, since the armor improvement is unnoticeable. Tier 6 Firefly remove stock engine, as well as the first 17-pdr, remove some other guns, give -7 depression with the remaining 17-pdr and -12 with all other guns, since they are also available on the American E8 with -12 depression. Some mobility would also be greatly appreciated. Cromwell should get some shell velocity improvements, to make aiming easier. Tier 7-10 well balanced, maybe some DPM to make up for the lowly alpha at tier 7-8 and faster shell velocity.

China:

Tier 5 well balanced, more depression would be appreciated to make it as good as the Russian T-34. Tier 6 remove the stock engine and cheapen the upgraded one. Buff the 85mm to meet the standards of the Russian equivalent. Tier 7 upgraded 85mm has to meet the standard of the new 85mm gun I described previously on the T-43. The 100mm needs reduced pen to 163mm and slightly higher DPM. Tier 8 both 85mm guns removed, 100mm gun standard. The upgraded 100mm gun needs to be taken from the Obj. 416, and the 122mm should have higher pen, maybe around 190mm with reduced DPM and increased depression to -7. Tier 9 stock gun removed, stock gun becomes the top gun of the tier 8. The 100mm 62-100T should be removed and replaced by the 122mm on the previous tank, with better DPM and soft stats. Tier 10 is balanced IMO.

Japan:

Tier 3 greatly simplified research path and fewer modules, with less exp required to unlock. BETTER MOBILITY FOR ALL MEDIUMS TIERS 3-7, very essential is the reverse speed, since the armor is so bad on the turret!!! Tier 4 well balanced. Tier 5 first 2 guns removed, better turret traverse and shell velocity, I would also recommend -11 degrees of depression, given how bad the armor is. Tier 6 pretty well balanced, recommend a better stock engine and -10 depression with both turrets. Tier 7 well balanced, recommend stock gun removed and upgraded gun increased alpha by 10-15hp. Tier 8 recommend removal of the completely unnecessary 90mm Gun M3A1 (stock gun) and decreased pen on the 90mm Rifled Gun (190mm or so), while having increased DPM on both 90mm guns left. Type 61 balanced almost perfectly. STB-1 recently balanced.

Czechoslovakia:

Tier 4 I would recommend stock gun removed, turret upgrade and best gun cheapened as far as exp is concerned and significantly improved mobility, while removing stock engine. Tier 5 reasonably well balanced, recommend lowering penetration of upgraded gun to below 120mm, not 132mm as it currently is. Tier 6 both guns require better penetration, recommend above 145mm. Tier 7 improved penetration on the stock gun above 160mm and somewhat increased mobility, aim time, accuracy and gun depression to -7 degrees. Tier 8 stock gun removed, stock gun becomes the 100mm of the previous tank. Turret is no longer required to research the next tank, however the gun that the player has to research is the 10.5cm vz. 39N instead of the 100mm vz. 44s. The 8.8cm becomes an optional upgrade ONLY! Gun depression increased to -8 with the second turret and -9 with the stock turret on ALL GUNS! Tier 9 stock gun should be removed and replaced with the 100mm R11. Improved stock engine (+125 hp). Tier 10 well balanced.

Poland:

Tier 5 improved mobility and the stock gun removed. Tier 6 stock gun removed, remaining 75mm gun shouldbecome stock gun and have lower pen (below 120mm) and the 90mm should get slightly lower DPM.

Sweden:

Tier 4 improved aim time, accuracy and shell velocity to make up for the slow nature of the tank. Tier 5 well balanced, a bit more mobility wouldn't hurt, since this is a reasonably light vehicle. Tier 6 well balanced, again a little more mobility OR increased turret armor. Tier 7 10cm gun should receive a little more pen, at around 170mm and decreased accuracy, but lower aim time.

Italy:

Well balanced an enjoyable tanks all along the line. Tier 4-6 well balanced, a little more pen here and there, but overall good. Tier 7 increased penetration on the second 90mm gun, as well as stock engine removed and +70 hp to the V-2-34 modificato engine, to close the gap between the two engines. Tier 8 removed stock engine, lower pen on top gun, around 195mm. Tier 9 lower pen on the stock gun, around 195mm and lower pen on top gun as well, below 250mm. Slightly better mobility. Tier 10 keeps the pen, but loses some aim time to 2.3 or even 2.4. The changes at tiers 8, 9 and 10 are due to the fact that the autoreloader mechanic has no disadvantage in game, apart from slightly lower DPM, and so this has to be balanced somehow. I would also propose making the unload time somewhat longer for all three autoreloaders.

Chapter III: Tank Destroyers

Germany:

No real onjections, apart from higher pen on the Jg.Pz. IV at tier 6, from 145mm to +165mm on the 88mm gun.

Russia:

Tier 7 and 8, SU-100M1 and SU-101 I recommend a more pronounced lower plate weakpoint, as well as adding a cupola to the center of the roof of the hull. Tier 10 Obj. 268 4 REQUIRES a lower plate nerf, I recommend a 140mm lower part of the lower plate, and a much larger cupola, which is cylindrical (look at german tanks tiers 6-7), and NOT Spherical, as it currently is.

USA:

Tier 4 T40 should have some guns removed, and increased standard depression with all guns of -10 degrees. Tier 6 Jackson should receive EITHER increased turret and hull armor (+165mm with 40mm mantlet and 100mm sloped) OR increased mobility and reverse speed. Otherwise pretty well balanced. Recommend weakening the sides of the lower plate on the T110E3 and E4, to allow tier 8s to penetrate without Premium Ammo.

France:

Reasonably well balanced, would recommend a more vulnerable lower plate for TDs tiers 8-10.

Britain:

Recommend depression increase for tier 4. Tiers 5-7 should receive 300mm of frontal armor, while tiers 8-9 should receive 350mm, however they MUST have at least 3 frontal weakpoints which can be penetrated by tanks 2 tiers lower, excepting the tier 5 (only 1 tier lower) and greatly reduced rear armor as well.. This is a radical increase, I admit, but to be honest there really isn't that much of a difference between 250mm and 300mm when you cannot pen either. Also, nowadays, the AT 15 can and does get penned by tier 9 standard rounds, and we can't have that on an assault gun. The turreted line is reasonably well balanced, although I would highly recommend removing the HESH shells of the tier 10, increasing HE penetration and introducing HEAT shells with 400mm of pen instead of the HESH. Same would happen to the FV215b 183.

China:

Reasonably well balanced, would recommend longer aim times on larger caliber guns, some more depression at lower tiers and lower camouflage values for tiers 8-10.

Sweden:

Increased DPM at lower tiers, as well as slightly better accuracy at tiers 6-7, and somewhat improved mobility and firing arcs for tiers 5-7.

Chapter IV: Clickers/Artillery

Unfortunately for the Balance Team from WG, Arty is hard to nuance, so from what I have seen and experienced in-game, with few exceptions, most of them respect the same pattern. The issue is, at lower tiers, this pattern is completely out of the bound of reality when compared to higher tiers. My proposal is this: NO arty, regardless of tier or caliber of gun, can do more than 50% worth of a tank's HP in damage. Of course, between 0% and 50% there is a lot of wiggle room, so how much % of damage you actually receive from an arty hit requires armor thickness and the caliber of the shell to be taken into account. This being said, to balance things out even more, arty will do damage on a per-hit basis. What this means is that if a tier 10 arty hits a tier 8 LT, it can do AT BEST 50% of that LT's hitpoints in dmg. If, however, it hits a tier 10 LT, then it could AT BEST do 50% of that tanks hitpoints in dmg. The algorithm for calculating how much damage the hit will be doing will remain the same as they currently are, but this measure will help balance out the field in TTK both at the lower tiers, where currently you get 1-shot-splashed by 152mm arty shells, and higher tiers, where not only are the reload times obscenely long, but the shells also do almost insignificant damage. Also, this will mean that a measure must be put in place to prevent lower tier arty from hitting you again and resetting the track repair. As such, no arty reload will take less than 12 seconds, WITH OR WITHOUT a gun rammer. The British artillery line will have its play style changed, which is unfortunate, but at least with such measures in place I can only hope concentrated arty fire on heavy tanks will stop, and arty will exist solely to clean up kills, do opportunity damage and reset caps/support pushes. I am heavily in favor of the removal of AP shells from ANY and ALL arty that can use it, and replacing it instead with Premium HE, which ONLY increase the shell's splash radius. The latest arty nerf has somewhat helped in reducing the damaging effect of the Stun Mechanic, and as such I didn't feel it needed to be addressed, since my only recommendation would be its removal.

Of course, with such a massive nerf to arty, I propose making it more accurate, quicker to aim and with a small increase in splash radius. Not only that, I also propose that Arty Missions be changed to better capture the new spirit of the SPG class.

Chapter V: Light Tanks

!Disclaimer! I chose to leave this class of tanks at the end of my rebalancing sum-up for a very simple reason: the playerbase. For ages it has been known in WoT that LTs are a very difficult, if not the most difficult class to play, and I agree to some extent. However, this doesn't mean that they should be almighty, that they should dominate and that they should be allowed to make fools of good players in Heavies or TDs. I will get a lot of hate, I will be called a N00B for attacking the LT class, but unfortunately it must be done. So here we go.

Germany:

Tier 6 increased top speed to 67 kph. Decrease pen from 132mm to 122mm. Tier 7 increase top speed to 64 kph. Tier 8 decrease penetration to 172mm and premium pen to 204mm. Tier 9 decrease pen to 204mm and premium pen to 236mm. Tier 10 increase depression to -12 over the front and the sides, increase rate of fire to improve DPM and improve accuracy to 0.33 stock.

Russia:

Tier 6 improve depression to -6.5, increase stock engine power to 650 hp. Tier 7 increase depression to -6.5, improve both engines' horsepower (+40 hp to both). Tier 8 increase depression to -6.5. Tier 9 decrease top engine hp (from 1000 to 900 hp), decrease turret armor from 180mm to 155mm, increase depression to -6.5. Tier 10 decrease hull armor to 80mm, decrease turret armor to 155mm.

USA:

Tier 6 improved stock mobility with both tanks (+50 hp for both stock engines) and improved mobility with upgraded engines (+30 hp for both upgraded engines). Lower pen from 130mm to 126mm on the T21. Tier 7 imrpoved mobility (+70 hp on all engines, stock and upgraded). Tier 8 improved mobility with stock engine (+70 hp). Tier 9 decrease mobility with both engines ( stock -20 hp, upgraded -30 hp). Tier 10 increase top speed to 68 kph.

France:

Tier 5 increase dispersion for the 90mm to 0.44, decrease aim time to 2.5. Drop view range to 350mm. Tier 6 increase stock engine hp to 270. Decrease pen to 134mm on the top gun and 174mm with premium ammo. Tier 7 increase stock engine hp to 330. Decrease top gun premium pen to 190mm. Increase dispersion to .38 on top gun. Tier 8 reasonably balanced. Tier 9 decrease pen to 204mm and 238mm premium pen. Tier 10 decrease depression to -6 degrees.

China:

Tier 6 increase depression to -6 degrees. Tier 7 decrease pen on top gun to 149mm and 196mm premium pen. Decrease pen on stock gun to 135mm and 176mm premium pen. Tier 8 remove the 100mm 59-100TA gun. Decrease pen on top gun to 176mm and 212mm premium pen. Tier 9 decrease top gun pen to 206mm and 237mm premium pen. Tier 10 decrease pen to 237mm and 267mm premium pen.

Chapter VI: The Plague (wheels)

To be honest, the only reasonable solution to the issues that these vehicles have brought to WoT is simply to remove them. However, this isn't possible, duh, and so I started out this post with a proposal to limit their view range and spotting capacity using various methods. The nerfs have to go much further than that, I'm afraid, simply because we are now travelling back in time, to when T29s would get circle strafed by T-50-2s who magically stuck to the ground. Nowadays, we have cars running around with tanks, carrying the same guns as them, but these don't blow up every single time they get hit, as a Range Rover would, for instance. Instead, they can have multiple wheels blown out and still move, they can jump, they can do barrel rolls, flips, and then, at the end of the day, when an impossible shot still lands, the magical alloy of Da Rims catches the 152mm ISU-152 shell and turns it into pixie dust. My proposal then, is this:

A choice between nerfs to DPM and Penetration OR Armor and Survivability.

However, an immediate and mandatory nerf is immobility after 2 wheels have been taken out. After the first wheel is taken out, the speed drops TO 33% of maximum, and when the 2nd wheel is knocked out, irrelevant if the first one was repaired or not, the vhecile will screech to a halt. After the 2nd wheel is repaired, the cycle begins again, first wheel to get knocked out slows the vehicle by 66% and the second one, irrelevant of the first one being repaired or not, stops the vehicle until the repair is done.

Please keep in mind that currently, wheelies are just as capable in combat as normal light tanks of the equal tier, have much higher survivability, camo and mobilty, lacking just view range.

1) DPM and Penetration: all Wheeled Light tanks, including the tier 8 premium, get Tier-2 light tank penetration. This means, for instance, that the tier 10 wheelie would receive tier 8 light tank pen, AKA ~170mm with no more than 210mm premium. Also, they will receive a nerf to DPM, which would place them at a Tier-2 light tank level.

2) Armor and Survivability: all wheeled light tanks, irrelevant of tier, get at most 10mm of armor, everywhere on the model. The wheels will count as 1-3mm of spaced armor and a hit anywhere on the tank has a 75% chance of knocking out 1 crew member, irrelevant which one and irrelevant of the caliber of the gun that scores a hit, the tier of the tank or the damage inflicted.

Both of these nerfs should limit, in some way, the combat capacity of the newly added and very unbalanced, even game breaking wheeled light tanks. I am a great proponent of the first nerf, with the mandatory request that the 2/3 and 1/3 standard and premium ammo selection limitation and the 30-40% premium ammo damage reduction, nerfs which I discussed at length before be introduced, otherwise such tanks will be premium ammo spamming machines, as every other tank in the game is.

Postscript: As an added Bonus, both for the unfortunate WG community manager, contributor or whatever else who happened to find this and for the playerbase, I urge Wargaming to do an updated measurement on EXACTLY how much premium ammo is being fired, not only in general, and BTW, it's nowhere near 5%, but also at particular tiers. I would like Wargaming, if possible, to add a statistic in the Service Record front page, where the ratio between the Premium Ammo and the standard ammo fired by a player be visible. I think this should help everyone understand that Premium Ammo should be Premium, and like everything in every game (well, almost) be balanced to work well with everything else. Look at your next door neighbour, War Thunder, and ask yourself, why is no one using APCR? Because it sucks at anything besides penetrating heavily armored targets, and when it does penetrate, it is nowhere near as devastating as normal AP. The same goes for HEAT. So, in normal people's talk, to Pen more it has to Do less after if Pens. Comprende? And anyway, since people no longer have to buy it for Gold, and there are so profitable tier 5 and 6 tanks, AND you basically give away Premium tanks a couple times per year, given that people put in enough work, how much money can this bloody Premium Ammo venture of yours still be bringing in? Yeah, maybe there are 5-6 players buying a Tier 5-6 premium here, another 5-6 buying 7 days of Premium there, but YOU are LOSING new players because of how unbalanced YOU allowed this game to become. Yes, you have to make every new line of tanks interesting, but for God's Sake, if you cannot manage to ALSO keep the old tanks useful, reach out to the community and some will care enough to help. It worked for Bethesda, it worked for you with the Modding Community (GJ all of you BTW) and it can work for you when it comes to working out what's best for the game as well, if time doesn't allow you to do it (the rebalancing) yourself.

Why, I wonder, did you chose to accept the community's feedback when WoWs is concerned, but you choose to ignore it when it comes to WoT? It would save you time, and it will make the game better for new players, medium players, old players, good players, bad players, EVERYONE.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/c7r9fx/discussion_complete_game_rebalance_part_2/

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