4Game

I just wanted to share my pov as I didn't see many people bringing it out.Most of the time, I see people saying that regarding 12/70 ammo, it's as follows :

– AP-20 : very cool, even more because now people have less good armor generally speaking.
– Flechette : the best way to deal with armored people up close, as it shreds.
– Magnum 8.5 : Huge recoil but fat damages, can't penetrate though.

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So basically people tend to use the first two instead of 8.5, and I think it's a big mistake.

As a main shotgun guy, I barely run anything else than the MP-153, 155 or saiga for the lulz.The thing I'm most interested in, when using ammo for my shotgun, is reliability.

And I find AP-20 and flechettes, unreliable.

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AP-20 when facing a heavily geared target is often disapointing, if you're in front of me and we engage at the exact same time, there is a very low chance I'm going to put you down if you use a good caliber or a vastly superior rof weapon. It's winnable don't make me say what I didn't say, it's just a disadvantage. If I land all shots then maybe it's gonna be okay but I've been killed multiple times trying to align 3 to 4 good shots in a row, because you have to be very careful and efficient. By choosing AP-20 you put yourself at a disadvantage versus chads that run good armors. I've experienced it multiple times.

The other problem I have with AP-20 is that, your hip fire shots are less forgivable than with buckshot. You can spray and pray but it's less likely to light up the dude in front of you with the slug.

The last problem I have with AP-20 is, it doesn't do enough damage. Crazy right ? It does 164 damage, with 37 pen power, what is this guy on ? Basically my problem with its damage is, if you don't manage to drop someone by aiming in the thorax with this shell, you need to hit limbs or the head. Now if you're a good shot, well fair enough, pop is melon. But if you want a reliable way of killing everytime and not count on a headshot, you're going to start to aim for the limbs and that's when reality hits :Damn I need to hit this guy in the same leg 2 times at least because apparently it's armor tanked all my thorax / stomach shots.

You're now in a situation where you're deep into combat, you're opponent most likely know where you are, you didn't kill him right away, you most likely need to reload soon, and the other guy is pretty f*ing pissed. And you need 2 to 3 leg shots in the same leg or an headshot to kill him. Things are not looking good. That's why I disregard AP-20 late wipe.

Regarding flechettes, I find it's a good ammo for very close proximity on very geared up targets. On factory for example, we all came across a drum barrelled saiga full of flechettes at one point. And everybody knows it hurts. Same goes for dorms. My main problem is, any fights where you have more than 10 meters between you and your target, you can't land debilitating shots with the damage it has. And that's not my main problem with it. It doesn't do enough damage, you're not going to destroy your target when you're too far from them. Even if you land all 8 projectiles on the target, we are talking 8×25 damage, that's 200 hp.On a 8 projectiles buckshot aimed towards the legs, imagining 5 of them hits either in the right leg or right arm and stomach, you have dealt 125 damages.Each limbs cost you 3 pellets to blacken it out. You might argue that "duh ofc but I'm mag dumping so it's k lol" and yes you would be right, if the recoil didn't make it very hard to do in a reliable way.

Again I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's less good.

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Now for the main culprit, the 8.5.

It's only problem is armor penetration, but the good thing is, it doesn't need any.Whenever you pull the trigger you unleash 400 damage onto the ennemy. I'm talking bringin a PMC to 40 hp in one go, most likely with a bleed and a fractured limb and pain effect. And you fired, once.

With one 8.5 shot when you hit only two pellets on a limb, that's a guaranteed blackened limb, right away. If you land more than 2 pellets, all other limbs are hit like crazy.

On the problem I talked about with the flechettes, the range, the 8.5 even if it has less precision, is more effective at range. All because of the damages. Damage starts to drop at 80 meters. If you're shooting someone further that 30/40 meters, you're already not using your shotty the way it's supposed to be used, but I'll give it to you, it works sometimes.

But I want reliable ways to kill efficiently, not do a coin flip several times in hope of getting a headshot.This is a *very* disabling round. Aiming at someone crossing the road is a guaranteed black leg, if the guy isn't on painkillers, you are going to kill him, no question.

If you put yourself in the same situation that I talked about with the AP-20. You somehow missed 1 shot, managed to do 2 thorax shots, that most likely damaged some arms in the way. You fired 4 times. The guy is far from untouched, like he would have been if you shot with the AP-20, so it's combat ability is reduced right away. If he is on painkillers, well he's a gamer and you gotta game better.So now you have pissed off a gamer, looking at you with one shredded arm minimum (so at minimum one blackened limb). So the guy has maximum 380 hp (arms being 60 hp). If you aim for his legs and land 8 pellets in whatever the number of shots you're going to fire, the guy is a goner, period.

I didn't adress the problem of recoil because I don't feel it's very debilitating with this ammo, you most likely carefully control your aim while adsing or spray and pray from hip fire. So I don't feel the difference that much (tbf I'm so used to using it that I don't feel any burdens while running 8.5)

In my book, regarding the situations I've been in, the 8.5 is better at middle range than the flechette, better at handling heavily geared foes than the the AP-20, better at disabilitating people in a single shot and better to use in hip fire because it is a buckshot. And most of all, it costs nothing, it's dirt cheap.

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And that's why gentlemen, I mostly only use 8.5 fuckshots in my shotguns.

Just wanted to share my views as I didn't see anyone adressing this.See you in a bush guys

Edit : I'm glad everyone is sharing opinions regarding other buckshots as well, as @Kegheimer pointed out, the 6.5 express is amazing early wipe when going for the head. People are most likely not running any face masks. it also does 35×9 with it's additionnal pellet, so it definitely needs its place in here as well.Regarding the statement saying AP-20 is a good flesh round, I disagree completely, for many reasons :
1 : It does low damage for a flesh round
2 : you need
3 : perfectly aimed leg shot to kill someone at full hp and it has 50% more recoil3 : If you play AP-20 you aren't seeking leg shots, you're seeking LVL 4 armored people to withdraw from existence.

If you want to get dirty with a slug that can actually do flesh damage, just go for the HP Superperformance, you will kill someone with 2 leg shots with this girl. It is more precise than AP-20 and has less recoil, you can even make it in the workshop lvl 2.It's very fun to play with an assault scope on top of an ETMI or a Kiba. But it doesn't fall in the reliable part for me, because as a slug it lacks the punch power I can have with a 8.5.

It's a totally different type of play though, I recommend testing it out (Take an MP-153 with custom grip and whatever stock you have in your stash, slap a silencer or a monster tromix and go have some fun!)